Many Christians sense a tension between their desire to enjoy life in this world—the beauty of God’s creation, the rich love of deep relationships with others—and the reality that this world is fallen and broken, in need of redemption. How can we embrace and thrive in the tension between enjoying creation and promoting redemption?

Bible Gateway interviewed Dr. Michael Wittmer (@MikeWittmer) about his book, Becoming Worldly Saints: Can You Serve Jesus and Still Enjoy Your Life? (Zondervan, 2015) (visit the book’s website where you can get a free small group study guide).

What do you mean when you write, “You’ll never understand yourself unless you feel the weight of the question, ‘Can you serve Jesus and still enjoy your life’”?

Dr. Wittmer: Every time we sin we’re saying “No” to this question. We ask, “Will I really enjoy my life if I obey Jesus here?” If we don’t think we can trust him, if we’re not sure he is on our side, then we strike out on our own and do what we want.

My point is that we all ask this question, at least subconsciously. If anyone thinks they don’t ask this question, they should stop and consider why they sin.

What is a worldly saint?

Dr. Wittmer: A worldly saint is a godly person who enjoys creation and thrives in their earthy, human life. Examples include the patriarchs, who enjoyed the material blessings that God showered upon them (Gen. 15:14; 46:5-6); Paul, who commanded preachers to encourage their people to thankfully appreciate creation (1 Tim. 4:1-6), and Jesus, who was accused of partying a little too much (Matt. 11:19).

The story in John 21 illustrates Jesus’ value on creation. Jesus appeared on the beach with the purpose of restoring Peter, yet he still thought it was important to give his disciples a miraculous catch of fish—which they gratefully counted to be 153! Jesus then used some of these fish to cook breakfast, which prepared Peter for their hard conversation. Think about it. Not long before the resurrected Christ ascended into heaven, he made breakfast on the beach. Jesus and redemption matter more than creation, but they don’t eliminate creation. The gospel frees us to thrive in every aspect of our human lives.

What does it mean to be created in God’s image and placed on earth to enjoy and steward this world on his behalf?

Dr. Wittmer: In the Ancient Near East, only kings were said to bear the image of their god. In Genesis 1-2, God democratizes this notion and declares that all humans are made in his image. Just as ancient kings claimed to govern territory on behalf of their god, so the true God commands all humans everywhere to govern the entire world on his behalf (Gen. 1:28). In Genesis 2:15, God told Adam to work the garden (Hebrew term means “serve”) and take care of it (Hebrew term means “guard”). We obey God’s first command when we responsibly develop culture from the earth’s raw materials. When we consider how our various tasks contribute either directly or indirectly to this stewardship, we will realize how even our earthly tasks will receive God’s heavenly reward.

Explain your statement, “A flourishing human life is the best advertisement for the gospel, and the gospel in turn empowers us to become better people.”

Dr. Wittmer: There’s competition between the cultural and redemptive mandates, between responsibly stewarding creation and making disciples of Christ (Gen. 1:28; Matt. 28:18-20). The money I spent on a new tree is money I can’t give to church. And yet these two commands also complement each other, because the more I flourish as a human the more attractive the gospel becomes. All things being equal, no one should flourish like a Christian. A well-lived life is an excellent platform to speak about Jesus, who as our Creator and Redeemer is the One who inspires us—and makes it possible—for us to thrive.

How should ‘worldly saints’ understand such verses as 1 John 2:15: “Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them.” and Colossians 3:1-2: “Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things.”?

Dr. Wittmer: This is the key to the book. I give the complete answer in chapter 7, but I’ll say here that if you read the context of these passages, you’ll find that John and Paul are not telling us to avoid the world or earthly things but to stop sinning. The “world” that we are not to love is “the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life” (1 John 2:16) and the “earthly things” we should avoid are “sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry… anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language” (Col. 3:5-9). God commands us to hate sin, not stuff. Our problem is the Fall, not God’s good creation.

Where in the Bible might it support your contention that “a good life is like good jazz: it has rhythm.”

Dr. Wittmer: One obvious place is God’s command to observe a weekly Sabbath (Ex. 20:8-11). Life must be a rhythm between work and rest. Christians need not keep the Sabbath in some legalistic way, yet common sense tells us this is for our good. People whose switch is always stuck in the On position—even if it’s for explicitly gospel activities—will soon burn out. It’s an unhealthy way to live, and a bad advertisement for the gospel.

Why is God’s judgment the only thing that gives ultimate meaning to life?

Dr. Wittmer: This is the point of Ecclesiastes. Everything in life is ultimately meaningless when viewed apart from God (Eccl. 1:2; 2:9-10). God’s judgment is the source of all value because he is the only being with intrinsic value (Eccl. 12:13-14). What is the value of my life, my marriage, my church, and my job? The value of any of these cannot come from themselves, because all are finite. Regardless how successful any of these are, their ultimate value is simply whatever God says. This should encourage us whose lives don’t seem as consequential as we had hoped. If God says we are priceless, then we are.

What do we risk when we make too much or too little of creation?

Dr. Wittmer: When we put our hopes in creation we lose our ability to love God. We worship the creature more than the Creator and turn God’s good world into an idol (Rom. 1:21-25).

But we also can lose our ability to love God when we make too little of creation. A relationship of love requires two separate people. We cannot love the other if there is no other. The first step toward loving God is to recognize our good, real, and separate (though dependent) existence from him. When we continually put down the good things of this world because we fear we will turn them into idols, we piously eliminate the possibility of loving God. God is infinitely better than his creation in every way. But this creation provides a necessary place to love him from.

Besides eliminating the possibility of loving God, making too little of creation also destroys the possibility of redemption. Our salvation depends on the incarnation and resurrection of the Son of God (John 1:14; 1 Cor. 15:12-19). Neither of these would be possible if there was something inherently wrong with our physical world.

How should our understanding of the gospel change the way we live?

Dr. Wittmer: We should feel liberated to be the person God has made us to be. We need not worry that our calling doesn’t seem spiritual enough. Paul says God will reward whatever we do, so work at it with all your heart (Col. 3:17, 23-24). Even slaves can know that their work is serving Jesus (1 Cor. 7:17-24).

But the gospel not only liberates us. It also raises the bar of the Christian life. We are commanded to be ourselves, and to be the best version of that person. There are no timeouts in the Christian life. We cannot give God a tithe, then say the rest of our money is for us. We cannot give God our Sunday, then say the rest of our week is for us. We cannot give God our morning devotions, then say the rest of our day is for us. God cares that we read Scripture, pray, and serve our local church, but he cares just as much how we talk to our spouse, raise our children, do our jobs, and what we text and watch online. It all counts now.

What’s the best way to achieve a balance between being “heavenly-minded” and a “world lover”?

God doesn’t call us to balance. He calls us to embrace both extremes full on. I need to be flat out committed to the heavenly purpose of the gospel. As Jesus said, what does it profit someone if he gains the whole world but loses his soul? (Matt. 16:26). What could be more important than not going to hell?

I also need to be fully immersed in this good world that God created. I want to enjoy every moment of this earthly life that Jesus purchased for me. If redemption restores creation, then the whole point of being a Christian is to become a better human. My earthly life will be interrupted by my death, which is a consequence of the Fall. But My Redeemer has defeated death and reversed the curse, and he will bring me back to live forever with him here, on our restored earth (Is. 65:17; 2 Pt. 3:13; Rev. 21:1-4).

Is there anything else you’d like to say?

Dr. Wittmer: The gospel cannot get started without an underlying good creation. Consider the biblical story. From start to finish, it is earthy, physical, and in the best sense of the word, materialistic. The story begins in a sensual garden of delight and then tells how a nation was delivered from physical bondage into a land overflowing with milk and honey. The story turns on an embodied God who physically died and rose again, whose sacrifice is remembered in the physical waters of baptism and the bread and the cup. The story consummates on a new earth where in the presence of God we will celebrate the marriage supper of the Lamb, bite into fruit from the Tree of Life, and gulp handfuls from the river of life.

From beginning to end, the material world matters. Get creation wrong—assume there is something inherently bad with God’s good world—and you’ll never get the gospel right. Redemption is more than creation, but it is not less.

Bio: Michael Wittmer, PhD, is Professor of Systematic Theology at Grand Rapids Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, MI. In addition to Becoming Worldly Saints, he’s the author of Heaven Is a Place on Earth: Why Everything I Do Matters to God, Don’t Stop Believing: Why Living Like Jesus Is Not Enough, The Last Enemy: Preparing to Win the Fight of Your Life, and Despite Doubt: Embracing a Confident Faith. He and his wife, Julie, live in Grand Rapids, Michigan with their three children.