Much has been written about heaven as a future eternal home. But what if Jesus is more interested in bringing heaven to earth rather than the other way around? Two pastors believe if you know where to look, you can see that the coming of a new heaven and a new earth already has begun. That life on earth is renewed every time you live out Jesus’s prayer that God’s ways will be followed on earth. And that what you believe about God’s plan for humanity and for his creation determines how you will invest your life.
Bible Gateway interviewed Josh Ross (@joshualouisross) and Jonathan Storment (@Stormented) about their book, Bringing Heaven to Earth: You Don’t Have to Wait for Eternity to Live the Good News (WaterBrook Press, 2015).
To begin with, thank you for telling readers in your introduction to visit BibleGateway.com! You write that the Bible doesn’t talk all that much about heaven or hell? How much does it talk about them?
Josh and Jonathan: First off, let us thank BibleGateway.com for how you draw people into God’s Word and into his heart. It’s an honor to dialogue with you about the Kingdom of God.
In our book Bringing Heaven to Earth, we spend considerable time presenting two ideas about heaven, hell, and earth.
Before answering the question, let it be noted that we believe in heaven, hell, and an afterlife. We also believe that God has not given up on the earth he created. In fact, in the end, God is not going to let Satan and his friends win anything. Every injustice will bow down at the name of Jesus. The clock is ticking on injustice and evil, and we think this is good news.
One idea we hope to convey about heaven is that we believe that the primary goal of the Bible, specifically the New Testament, is not that we get to go to heaven when we die, but it’s that we get to thrive in a living covenant with Jesus that transcends death. Therefore, the gospel is bigger than trusting in Jesus, so you can get your sins forgiven, so that you can go to heaven after you die. The gospel is trusting in Jesus, entering into an eternal covenant which begins now, and then living in the fullness of God in order to change the world. The call of Christians is not to cross your fingers and hang on tight until the end, but to roll up your sleeves, partner with God, and join in the adventure.
Two, the primary way the Bible talks about heaven isn’t that it’s a place we go to, but it’s a reality that will be established here on earth. We spend considerable time working through Isaiah 65, Matthew 6, and Revelation 21. It’s important for us to understand that we don’t build the Kingdom of God. God does that. But we do get to build for the Kingdom, and that’s happening right now.
What are the qualities of heaven we need to remember?
Josh and Jonathan: Great question, and there are a number of ways to answer it. Here’s one to consider: Revelation 21:1-8 describes heaven as God setting all things right. Evil and all of evil’s friends are dealt a final blow. In our hearts, we ache for this redemption. The day is on its way when the power of the resurrection of Jesus will crush Satan under our feet (Romans 16:20).
Is it dangerous to view heaven as a distant spiritual realm?
Josh and Jonathan: We think it is. Because if we’re not careful, we can slip into Deism, which says that God basically set up the world, then he retreated to another place until the end of times. The early Christians didn’t believe this. In fact, if you read Ephesians 4:9-10, the ascension of Jesus wasn’t a way for him to escape from the earth, but to position himself “so that He might fill all things.”
You say that the world we live in matters and what we think about tomorrow impacts how we live today. Unpack that for us.
Josh and Jonathan: Ultimately, what we hope for is what we live for. If we believe that the Lord’s Prayer in Matthew 6 is a prayer that we’re supposed to live into (which early Christians did), then we believe that deposits of God’s future are breaking into today. And one thing we know about God from Genesis 2 throughout Revelation is that he delights in working through human beings to accomplish His purposes.
Our two churches and our two cities (Sycamore View in Memphis, TN, & Highland in Abilene, TX) deserve a lot of credit for this book, because they give us continual glimpses of how God’s future is pressing into our present day.
How do you believe Christians have misrepresented the gospel?
Josh and Jonathan: One concern we have (especially when it comes to Christianity in the western world) is that we’ve put too much emphasis on conversion moments. Hear us carefully, because we both believe in the beauty and power of conversion moments and we believe in the necessity of making decisions for Christ; yet the thrust of what it means to be a follower of Jesus is not that we’re converted into a moment, but into a movement. We don’t need the emphasis placed on status change, but rather on what it means to be a passionate, well-rounded follower of Jesus.
What are heaven and earth collisions and why should people pray for them?
Josh and Jonathan: Heaven presses into earth any time the truth of heaven is announced and lived out on the earth. One thing we love so much about God is that he doesn’t hoard his goodness and his gifts. He’s eager to dispense. Any time we pray, “God, let your Kingdom come and your will be done on earth as it is in heaven,” we’re asking God to declare the truths of heaven into this world.
How is the gospel more about this world than the next?
Josh and Jonathan: The good news of God is about the “not yet” and the “here and now.” The way the church lived in the book of Acts is that they believed there was a message that had to be shared, and every injustice needed to be set right. This is why for 2,000 years Christians have been at the forefront of building hospitals, caring for orphans, dismantling oppressors, and dispensing mercy unashamedly. The good news of Jesus isn’t something we wait for, but something we live into.
How should Christians engage the world as if right now matters for eternity?
Josh and Jonathan: When the early church faced threats and persecution in Acts 4, the prayers they prayed weren’t for safety, but for boldness. And consider this: if you were to think of the most immoral cities in the first century, we now call them the names of the books of the New Testament, because God didn’t give up on cities like Ephesus, Corinth, and Rome. Christians are not at their best when they escape from the world, but when they engage the world as people clothed in righteousness. We’re at our best when we march into the world for the sake of the cause.
How did Jesus use the idea of a party to communicate the idea of heaven?
Josh and Jonathan: We advocate that at the heart of God is the beauty of restoration. There’s nothing God doesn’t want to bring back to life. And restoration is at its best when it’s celebrated well. We spend a lot of time in Luke 14 & 15, where Jesus talks about tables, banquets, and parties. This was nothing new for the people of God. Throughout the Old Testament, nearly every feast had a celebratory component to it, because when outsiders asked, “Why do you celebrate with such intensity?” the answer was, “God has done great things for us. How can we help but celebrate?” The church needs to reclaim the beauty and power of celebration.
How do you hope readers of your book will be affected by it?
Josh and Jonathan: We hope and pray this book gives people hope, because hope is so much better than despair. We hope this book encourages people to eagerly pray for God’s restoration to fall in hearts and in our communities. We hope this is a word of encouragement to the local church that our God is still on the move.
Bio: Josh Ross is the lead minister for Sycamore View Church in Memphis, TN. Upon graduation from Abilene Christian University, Ross answered God’s call to serve people in areas known for racial tension and a wide gap between rich and poor. In a city known for violence and hatred, Ross and his congregation work to restore an underserved part of Memphis to a place of justice, opportunity, and health. Ross is the author of Scarred Faith. He speaks regularly at churches, Christian conferences, and Christian colleges and universities. Ross and his wife Kayci have two boys.
Jonathan Storment is the preaching minister at the Highland Church in Abilene, Texas. Highland engages in the meaningful and often messy work of restoration in their city; their vision is to end systemic homelessness in Abilene. Storment is married to Leslie, and they have four children. He is the author of How to Start a Riot and a regular contributor to Scot McKnight’s blog Jesus Creed.