{"id":19968,"date":"2016-05-17T07:11:46","date_gmt":"2016-05-17T12:11:46","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/blog\/?p=19968"},"modified":"2022-02-14T10:52:30","modified_gmt":"2022-02-14T15:52:30","slug":"reordering-the-trinity-an-interview-with-rodrick-durst","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/blog\/2016\/05\/reordering-the-trinity-an-interview-with-rodrick-durst\/","title":{"rendered":"Reordering the Trinity: An Interview with Rodrick Durst"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><span><\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote>\n<p><center>Trinity Sunday is June 12, 2022.<br \/>\n<strong>Browse resources about <a href=\"http:\/\/biblegateway.christianbook.com\/page\/tcg\/biblegateway\/bg-academic\/bg-theology\/bg-trinity?p=1172374&amp;utm_source=bg&amp;utm_medium=email&amp;utm_campaign=blog\" title=\"Browse resources about the Trinity in the Bible Gateway Store\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">the Trinity<\/a> in the Bible Gateway Store.<\/strong><\/center><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.rodrickdurst.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow noopener noreferrer\"><img class=\"alignright\" alt=\"Rodrick K. Durst\" title=\"Rodrick K. Durst\" src=\"https:\/\/bg3-blog.s3.amazonaws.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/03\/22084831\/RickDurst.jpg\" width=\"150\"><\/a>The New Testament writers present the Trinity in a variety of orders; not only &#8220;Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.&#8221; Is the order intentional? Should it impact our understanding of God and the mission of the church? Does the order of the three names correspond to a particular purpose of God?<\/p>\n<p>Bible Gateway interviewed <a href=\"http:\/\/www.rodrickdurst.com\/\" alt=\"Rodrick K. Durst\" title=\"Rodrick K. Durst\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow noopener noreferrer\">Rodrick K. Durst<\/a> (<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/DocDurst\" title=\"Rodrick K. Durst Twitter stream\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow noopener noreferrer\">@DocDurst<\/a>) about his book, <a href=\"http:\/\/biblegateway.christianbook.com\/Christian\/Books\/product?item_no=5443787&amp;p=1172374&amp;utm_source=bg&amp;utm_medium=email&amp;utm_campaign=blog\" title=\"Buy your copy of Reordering the Trinity in the Bible Gateway Store\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><strong><em>Reordering the Trinity: Six Movements of God in the New Testament<\/em><\/strong><\/a> (Kregel Academic, 2015).<\/p>\n<p>[See our Blog post, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/blog\/2015\/05\/trinity-sunday-considering-one-of-christianitys-greatest-mysteries\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><em>Trinity Sunday: Considering One of Christianity\u2019s Greatest Mysteries<\/em><\/a>]<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/biblegateway.christianbook.com\/Christian\/Books\/product?item_no=5443787&amp;p=1172374&amp;utm_source=bg&amp;utm_medium=email&amp;utm_campaign=blog\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><img class=\"alignright\" title=\"Buy your copy of Reordering the Trinity in the Bible Gateway Store\" alt=\"Buy your copy of Reordering the Trinity in the Bible Gateway Store\" src=\"https:\/\/bg3-blog.s3.amazonaws.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/03\/22084944\/ReorderingTheTrinity.jpg\" width=\"150\"><\/a><\/p>\n<p><strong>What first led you to take notice of the way God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are ordered differently in various Bible verses?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Rodrick Durst:<\/strong> While reading the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.BibleGateway.com\/\" title=\"Read the Bible on Bible Gateway\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Bible<\/a> in 2005, I noted the unexpected triune order in the apostle Paul\u2019s benediction in <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=2+Corinthians+13%3A14\" title=\"Read 2 Corinthians 13:14 on Bible Gateway\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">2 Corinthians 13:14<\/a>, \u201cthe grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.\u201d The order of this triune reference was Son-Father-Spirit. And I asked myself, why did Paul reorder the Trinity in this verse? This set me off on a quest to discover just how many instances of identifying the three persons by name in the triune God could be found in the New Testament no matter the order of those three.<\/p>\n<p><strong>How many Scripture verses include a triadic order of divine reference?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Rodrick Durst:<\/strong> In my search through the New Testament, I quickly found 75 instances in which God is named in one of six different triune orders. We know that any three entities can be ordered in six different ways and the New Testament repeatedly makes use of all six possible orders of Father, Son, and Spirit.<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><em>Missional<\/em>: Father, Son, Holy Spirit (e.g., <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=Matthew+28%3A19-20\" title=\"Read Matthew 28:19-20 on Bible Gateway\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Matthew 28:19-20<\/a>)<\/li>\n<li><em>Formational<\/em>: Father, Holy Spirit, Son (e.g., <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=1+Peter+1%3A2\" title=\"Read 1 Peter 1:2 on Bible Gateway\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">1 Peter 1:2<\/a>)<\/li>\n<li><em>Christological<\/em>: Son, Father, Holy Spirit (e.g., <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=2+Corinthians+13%3A14\" title=\"Read 2 Corinthians 13:14 on Bible Gateway\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">2 Corinthians 13:14<\/a>)<\/li>\n<li><em>Evangelistic<\/em>: Son, Holy Spirit, Father (e.g., <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=Acts+2%3A38-39\" title=\"Click to read Acts 2:38-39 on Bible Gateway\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Acts 2:38-39<\/a>)<\/li>\n<li><em>Ecclesial<\/em>: Holy Spirit, Son, Father (e.g., <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=Ephesians+4%3A4-5\" title=\"Read Ephesians 4:4-5 on Bible Gateway\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Ephesians 4:4-5<\/a>)<\/li>\n<li><em>Liturgical<\/em>: Holy Spirit, Father, Son (e.g., <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=Jude+20-21\" title=\"Read Jude 20-21 on Bible Gateway\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Jude 20-21<\/a>)<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><strong>What is the triadic order in the majority of the verses?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Rodrick Durst:<\/strong> I organized all of this biblical data into an Excel spreadsheet so I could analyze it. The traditional order Father-Son-Spirit is used 18 times or 24% of the total Trinitarian references. The Son-Spirit-Father triad is used 15 times or 20% of the whole, with the Son-Father-Spirit order coming in a close third with 14 instances or 19% of the time. All of the remaining orders occurred at least eight times each.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Why is the way the Trinity is ordered in these verses important?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Rodrick Durst:<\/strong> This project took on a much larger significance when I began to wonder if specific Trinitarian orders were used consistently in specific contexts. I studied all of the instances of the traditional Father-Son-Spirit order and discovered that this order normally occurs in a <em>mission will<\/em> context. This order is God <em>sending<\/em>. The context of <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=Matthew+28%3A18-20\" title=\"Read Matthew 28:18-20 on Bible Gateway\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Matthew 28:18-20<\/a> is the sending out of the disciples to the nations. This same <em>mission will<\/em> order is repeated in <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=John+20%3A21\" title=\"Read John 20:21 on Bible Gateway\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">John 20:21<\/a>. Whenever the reverse order, Spirit-Son-Father, is used, the context is generally related to the church being <em>united as one<\/em>. In <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=Ephesians+4\" title=\"Read Ephesians 4 on Bible Gateway\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Ephesians 4<\/a>, where the whole context is Paul\u2019s doctrine of the church, we read \u201cone Spirit\u2026 One Lord\u2026 One God and Father\u201d in <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=Ephesians+4%3A4-6\" title=\"Read Ephesians 4:4-6 on Bible Gateway\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">verses 4-6<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Explain the prayer experiment you gave your class.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Rodrick Durst:<\/strong> I decided to offer the students a prayer experiment based on my research into the Trinity and the New Testament. I gave them the chart of 75 instances of the six orders of the three persons in the Godhead. I pointed out that if the New Testament authors, inspired by the Holy Spirit, used all six different orders, why couldn\u2019t we? I asked them if they would be willing to pray to God in one of the orders that made the most sense to them that night. I gave them five minutes to pray and worship and then we debriefed.<\/p>\n<p>The most memorable response was the female student who shared that she had been raised in a home where her relationship with her father was so abusive that she had never been able to call God \u201cFather\u201d until that night. She said she prayed in the order of Jesus the Son, then to God the Spirit, and finally she was able to break through and call God Father. Her testimony made me realize that my research was more significant than I thought.<\/p>\n<p><img class=\"alignright\" title=\"A chart to help explain the Trinity. Source: Reordering the Trinity\" alt=\"A chart to help explain the Trinity. Source: Reordering the Trinity\" src=\"https:\/\/bg3-blog.s3.amazonaws.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/03\/23083257\/TrinityChart.png\" width=\"350\"><\/p>\n<p><strong>What do you mean by the \u201cmystery of the triadic orders\u201d and \u201cmatrix of Trinitarian consciousness\u201d?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Rodrick Durst:<\/strong> We all crave simplicity rather than complexity, but God is a mystery and part of that mystery is not only how three can be one and one can be three but how the three can be in many different orders. Those six different orders make up a matrix of how Jesus taught his disciples to be God conscious. The references to the Trinity are so abundant in the New Testament that I conclude that Trinitarian thinking is the default way of thinking and writing about God used by the disciples and that they learned this from Jesus himself.<\/p>\n<p><strong>How have the triadic orders been used throughout church history?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Rodrick Durst:<\/strong> The doctrine of the triune God is not an easy one. There have been 2000 years of heretical attempts to deface the doctrine through either Unitarianism and rigid Muslim monotheism, which over-emphasizes the oneness and eclipses the three, or to surrender to Watchtower subordinationism, which makes the Son an incarnate archangel and the Spirit an impersonal force. The church has always retained the doctrine of the Trinity through its use at baptisms and in benedictions. Despite not giving due attention to those five other orders, the textual pressure from the New Testament, with its 75 instances of naming the triune God, called the church to retain its orthodox theology and construct the famous Trinitarian formulas like \u201cthree Persons in the one Divine substance.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>What is the significance of referencing the order of the Trinity in a particular way in a person\u2019s everyday life?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Rodrick Durst:<\/strong> One of my favorite Trinitarian orders is Spirit-Father-Son. This order occurs nine times in the New Testament for 12% of the total instances. You can find this order in the narrative of the martyrdom of Stephen in <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=Acts+7%3A55\" title=\"Read Acts 7:55 on Bible Gateway\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Acts 7:55<\/a>. There Stephen has finished his long sermon exalting Christ with the result that his audience was enraged. \u201cBut he, full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Whenever we anticipate going out in the community to share Christ and serve others in Christ\u2019s, we can call on God the Spirit, asking him to fill us so that we can see God the Father high and exalted and reigning, and asking the Father to enable us to see the Lord Jesus standing tall for us at the cross, and then we can ask the Lord Jesus to stand stall in us that we might be faithful for him. I have found that worshiping God in this biblical fashion in preparation for living for Christ in our fallen world is enormously effective.<\/p>\n<p><strong>What are your thoughts about Bible Gateway and the Bible Gateway App?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Rodrick Durst:<\/strong> I have the Bible Gateway App on my iPhone and have used Bible Gateway innumerable times to find the most effective English translations for my sermon preparation.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Is there anything else you\u2019d like to say?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Rodrick K. Durst:<\/strong> I tried to make <a href=\"http:\/\/biblegateway.christianbook.com\/Christian\/Books\/product?item_no=5443787&amp;p=1172374&amp;utm_source=bg&amp;utm_medium=email&amp;utm_campaign=blog\" title=\"Buy your copy of Reordering the Trinity in the Bible Gateway Store\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><em>Reordering the Trinity<\/em><\/a> as helpful as possible to pastors since I know it can often be difficult to preach on the Trinity and to say something new. I built eight sermon starters related to each of the six orders, to the triune God in the Old Testament, and also related to the doctrine of the Trinity in church history. In the appendices, I included directions for the Trinitarian prayer experiment plus a 40 day meditation experience on the Trinity orders. There are also directions on how to talk to children and to teenagers about the doctrine of the Trinity.<\/p>\n<hr>\n<p><strong>Bio:<\/strong> Rodrick Durst (Rick) is professor of historical theology at Golden Gate Baptist Seminary in Mill Valley, California and is the director of the seminary\u2019s new Bay Area Campus now under construction in Fremont, California. He has served the seminary in a variety of roles from vice president of academic affairs to the founding director of its online education program. Prior to coming to the seminary in 1991, Durst was a pastor in Santa Rosa and Vallejo for 12 years. He and his wife of 38 years have three children and three grandchildren. Durst is also a contributing author to the 2015 B&amp;H publication<a href=\"http:\/\/biblegateway.christianbook.com\/Christian\/Books\/product?item_no=688324&amp;p=1172374&amp;utm_source=bg&amp;utm_medium=email&amp;utm_campaign=blog\" title=\"Buy your copy of Ministry in the New Marriage Culture in the Bible Gateway Store\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><em>Ministry in the New Marriage Culture<\/em><\/a> and is co-author of <a href=\"http:\/\/biblegateway.christianbook.com\/Christian\/Books\/product?item_no=608179&amp;p=1172374&amp;utm_source=bg&amp;utm_medium=email&amp;utm_campaign=blog\" title=\"Buy your copy of Church Fails in the Bible Gateway Store\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><em>Church Fails: 100 blunders in Church History &amp; What We Can Learn From Them<\/em><\/a>.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Trinity Sunday is June 12, 2022. Browse resources about the Trinity in the Bible Gateway Store. The New Testament writers present the Trinity in a variety of orders; not only &#8220;Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.&#8221; Is the order intentional? Should it impact our understanding of God and the mission of the church? Does the order [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":12,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":[],"categories":[477,499,446,492],"tags":[156,714,75,614,147,713],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v17.6 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Reordering the Trinity: An Interview with Rodrick Durst - Bible Gateway Blog<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/blog\/2016\/05\/reordering-the-trinity-an-interview-with-rodrick-durst\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Reordering the Trinity: An Interview with Rodrick Durst - Bible Gateway Blog\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Trinity Sunday is June 12, 2022. Browse resources about the Trinity in the Bible Gateway Store. The New Testament writers present the Trinity in a variety of orders; not only &#8220;Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.&#8221; Is the order intentional? Should it impact our understanding of God and the mission of the church? Does the order [&hellip;]\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/blog\/2016\/05\/reordering-the-trinity-an-interview-with-rodrick-durst\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Bible Gateway Blog\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:publisher\" content=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/BibleGateway\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2016-05-17T12:11:46+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2022-02-14T15:52:30+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:image\" content=\"https:\/\/s3.amazonaws.com\/bg3-blog\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/03\/22084831\/RickDurst.jpg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:creator\" content=\"@BibleGateway\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:site\" content=\"@BibleGateway\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Jonathan Petersen\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"8 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/blog\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/blog\/\",\"name\":\"Bible Gateway Blog\",\"description\":\"News and reflections from BibleGateway.com\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/blog\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/blog\/2016\/05\/reordering-the-trinity-an-interview-with-rodrick-durst\/#primaryimage\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"url\":\"\",\"contentUrl\":\"\"},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/blog\/2016\/05\/reordering-the-trinity-an-interview-with-rodrick-durst\/#webpage\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/blog\/2016\/05\/reordering-the-trinity-an-interview-with-rodrick-durst\/\",\"name\":\"Reordering the Trinity: An Interview with Rodrick Durst - Bible Gateway Blog\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/blog\/#website\"},\"primaryImageOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/blog\/2016\/05\/reordering-the-trinity-an-interview-with-rodrick-durst\/#primaryimage\"},\"datePublished\":\"2016-05-17T12:11:46+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2022-02-14T15:52:30+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/blog\/#\/schema\/person\/a795083ed636b3aa8601e3ecb8652871\"},\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/blog\/2016\/05\/reordering-the-trinity-an-interview-with-rodrick-durst\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/blog\/2016\/05\/reordering-the-trinity-an-interview-with-rodrick-durst\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/blog\/2016\/05\/reordering-the-trinity-an-interview-with-rodrick-durst\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/blog\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Reordering the Trinity: An Interview with Rodrick Durst\"}]},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/blog\/#\/schema\/person\/a795083ed636b3aa8601e3ecb8652871\",\"name\":\"Jonathan Petersen\",\"sameAs\":[\"http:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/blog\/author\/jon\/\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Reordering the Trinity: An Interview with Rodrick Durst - Bible Gateway Blog","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/blog\/2016\/05\/reordering-the-trinity-an-interview-with-rodrick-durst\/","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Reordering the Trinity: An Interview with Rodrick Durst - Bible Gateway Blog","og_description":"Trinity Sunday is June 12, 2022. 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